A team of evangelical Christian explorers claim they've found the remains of Noah's ark beneath snow and volcanic debris on Turkey's Mount Ararat (map).
But some archaeologists and historians are taking the latest claim that Noah's ark has been found about as seriously as they have past ones—which is to say not very.
"I don't know of any expedition that ever went looking for the ark and didn't find it," said Paul Zimansky, an archaeologist specializing in the Middle East at Stony Brook University in New York State.
Turkish and Chinese explorers from a group called Noah's Ark Ministries International made the latest discovery claim Monday in Hong Kong, where the group is based.
"It's not 100 percent that it is Noah's ark, but we think it is 99.9 percent that this is it," Yeung Wing-cheung, a filmmaker accompanying the explorers, told The Daily Mail.
Raw Video: Purported Site of Noah's Ark in Turkey (Courtesy Noah's Ark Ministries International)
Noah's Ark Location in Turkey a Secret
The team claims to have found in 2007 and 2008 seven large wooden compartments buried at 13,000 feet (4,000 meters) above sea level, near the peak of Mount Ararat. They returned to the site with a film crew in October 2009.
Many Christians believe the mountain in Turkey is the final resting place of Noah's ark, which the Bible says protected Noah, his family, and pairs of every animal species on Earth during a divine deluge that wiped out most of humanity.
"The structure is partitioned into different spaces," said Noah's Ark Ministries International team member Man-fai Yuen in a statement. "We believe that the wooden structure we entered is the same structure recorded in historical accounts. ... "
The team says radiocarbon-dated wood taken from the discovery site—whose location they're keeping secret for now—shows the purported ark is about 4,800 years old, which coincides roughly with the time of Noah's flood implied by the Bible.
Skepticism of the new Noah's ark claim extends to at least one scholar who interprets the Bible literally.
Biologist Todd Wood is director of the Center for Origins Research at Bryan College in Tennessee, which pursues biology in a creationist framework.
As a creationist, Wood believes God created Earth and its various life-forms out of nothing roughly 6,000 years ago.
"If you accept a young chronology for the Earth ... then radiocarbon dating has to be reinterpreted," because the method often yields dates much older than 6,000 years, Wood said.
Radiocarbon dating estimates the ages of organic objects by measuring the radioisotope carbon 14, which is known to decay at a set rate over time. The method is generally thought to reach its limit with objects about 60,000 years old. Earth is generally thought to be about four and a half billion years old.
Across the board, radiocarbon dates need to be recalibrated, Wood believes, to reflect shorter time frames.
Given this perceived overestimation in radiocarbon dating, the wood the Noah's Ark Ministries International team found should have a "traditional" radiocarbon date of several tens of thousands of years if the wood is truly 4,800 years old, Wood said.
"I'm really, really skeptical that this could possibly be Noah's Ark," he added. The wood date is "way, way, way too young."
Wood thinks Noah's ark will never be found, because "it would have been prime timber after the flood," he said.
"If you just got off the ark, and there's no trees, what are you going to build your house out of? You've got a huge boat made of wood, so let's use that," he said. "So I think it got torn apart and scavenged for building material basically."
"Noah's Ark" Found in Right Country, on Wrong Mountain?
Another reason scholars are skeptical of the latest Noah's ark discovery claim is that Genesis—the first book of the Bible—never specifies which peak the vessel supposedly landed on in Turkey.
"The whole notion is odd, because the Bible tells you the ark landed somewhere in Urartu,"—an ancient kingdom in eastern Turkey—"but it's only later that people identified Mount Ararat with Urartu," said Jack Sasson, a professor of Jewish and biblical studies at Vanderbilt University in Tennessee.
Stony Brook's Zimansky agreed. "Nobody associated that mountain with the ark" until the tenth century B.C., he said, adding that there's no geologic evidence for a mass flood in Turkey around 4,000 years ago. (See "'Noah's Flood' Not Rooted in Reality, After All?")
The Noah's Ark Ministries International explorers are "playing in a very different ballpark than the rest of us," Zimansky said. "They're playing without any concern for" the archaeological, historical, and geological records.
Better Explanations for "Noah's Ark" Structure?
Even if the Noah's Ark Ministries International team did find a wooden structure or even a boat on Mount Ararat, there are other explanations for what the structure might be.
For example, it could be a shrine constructed by early Christians to commemorate the site where they believed Noah's Ark should be, Zimansky said.
Even in that speculative case, it wouldn't be 4,000 years old. "The Bible hadn't even been written yet," he said.
Bible scholar Sasson said he thinks biblical writers intended the story of Noah's ark to be allegorical, not a true recounting of historical events. By presenting a scenario in which humanity is punished for its wickedness, "they were trying to draw us to the notion of a God who asks us to be acceptable," Sasson said.
On its Web site, Noah's Ark Ministries International says the Turkish government plans to apply to the United Nations to put the Noah's ark discovery site on the UNESCO World Heritage list, a designation given to places of special cultural or physical significance.
But the agency hasn't received any official requests from Turkey for "the inscription of 'Noah's ark'" into the list, UNESCO spokesperson Roni Amelan said in an email.
Such a move would take time, Amelan added. "This cannot be done overnight."
Why would anyone would expect to find any remains? The legend of Noah's Ark pre-dates the Bible by thousands of years, it was known on tablets from the Mesopotamian city of Ur - now in modern day Iraq, in the earliest version the Ark was a circular raft built of reeds.
The story as we now know it has been changed and embellished many times, measurements added etc according to how people thought Noah may have made his Ark relating to the construction methods of their own times. The biblical Ark that some people are searching for simply did not exist
The original story of the raft may well have related to a real flood in the area but having made landfall in such circumstances it is likely that the survivors would utilise their raft/ boat for firewood and shelter. Nothing could be found nowadays that could be linked to the legend, no one knows the date of the flood or the true location of even if it was based on a real event at all.
For all the intelligence we humans claim to have, those "illiterates" had a great deal more. You find them dumb because they could not read or write, before words there was not a need to read or write. Science is a useless knowledge, for all its solutions it has only created problems, that it tries to solve. Isn't that a paradox?
Words are sounds that humans give to things, because we give them sound does not mean that we give it purpose or identity or existence. Science does the same, it gives words to things. No matter how hard science says this thing is an "electron"(jus an example) and it does this or interacts with this, it still does not explain what it is, for we will never truly know what ANYTHING is.
Every physical thing you see, hear, taste, smell, touch. Is a vibration, whether its "solid" or "gas" or "liquid". Yet science does not truly know what this is? Only the name it has given it. Would a rose called by any other name smell as sweet? Well no s***.
We are blessed with a planet that is filled with every piece of this universe, good and bad, that we can awe at and wonder at and preserve. Science has done nothing but destroy this planet, along with media preying on insecurities. This is the physical devil we face as of now!! This is where our focus should rest!
It does not matter whether any religion is real, whether any god is or is not.
What matters is striving for a better humanity. Believing that people, are inherently good, and helping them to see that in themselves.
Because god or no god, the only purpose that should matter is that alone.
Looks like we have a war between religion and atheism going on here. First of I would like to say that I respect everyone's opinion, even the opinion of atheist's. I'm not a scientist so I'm not going to go to in depth, but I do have a couple of questions. The Big Bang Theory states that at one point, the universe was a singularity containing all the matter needed to create the universe. My question is, how did that singularity get there? Was the universe at one point nothing and if so, how could something come from nothing? That is why I believe in God. I just don't see any other way we could all be here.
Noah's Ark being found high on Mt. Ararat is a very debated topic. One thing is for sure; there is a man made wooden structure up there. This structure looks very similar to a ship, specifically the famous Ark of Noah. Could it be a hoax? Of course! Anything is possible. I have done a little research on Mt. Ararat and let me say it's a treacherous mountain. Avalanches are a real threat and there are multiple crevasses that one could fall through to their death. I just don't believe someone would risk their life and go through those incredible lengths just to play an elaborate hoax. The way I see it is there are 2 ways that ship could have got there. 1: someone is playing a very sadistic hoax on humanity or 2: There was indeed a flood and the mountain is where the Ark ran aground. One eye witness of the Ark brought back wood that was carbon dated back to around 5000 years, which coincides with the Ark's journey. Now I am aware that carbon dating is not 100% accurate, but I still don't believe someone would go through that much trouble to play a joke.
Many events in the Bible that have been disputed actually can be supported by science. One such even is the parting of the Red Sea. The point where the Jew's crossed was actually a shallow area. A strong wind could indeed make a path for the Jews to cross and all it would take after that is a change in wind to cause all that water to come crashing down. Napoleon actually experienced a similar event and barely escaped with his life.
Another event is the famous battle between David vs. Goliath. The main argument to this historic battle is the size of Goliath. He was supposedly over 9 feet tall. However history has shown that giants did live back in the day as well as today. I understand that there is no way to prove Goliath's actual size because his body was never found. But Julius Caesar's body hasn't been found either but we all know he existed. The other argument against this event is the fact that a little pebble brought down a giant like Goliath. But I have been to Iraq and have witnessed first hand how fast a sling can throw a pebble. Someone who is experienced can sling a pebble with lethal speed and pin point accuracy. If a pebble traveling that fast struck someone in the head, as did Goliath, it could easily knock someone unconscious. After Goliath fell, David then took Goliath's sword and cut Goliath's head off. Every bit of that is plausible.
The Bible goes into so much detail it's just impossible for me to think that it's just fiction. Read the book of exodus, specifically the part about the Jew's constructing the Ark of the Covenant. The Bible describes how the Ark was supposed to be built in so much detail. From every material used to every last measurement. The same detail is given for the construction of the Temple of Jerusalem in the 2nd book of Kings. Given the detail of the Bible, I just don't think that someone could have just made it up. The Book of Exodus is an eye witness account of the Jew's journey from Egypt to the promised land. Archeologist have found a carving at Mt. Sinai in a cave of a cow. The exact cow that the Jew's worshipped while Moses made his 40 day journey to the top of the mountain to receive the 10 commandments from God. That proves that the Jew's were indeed at that location just like the Bible says.
I would also like to address whether the great flood is possible. Like I said previously, I am no scientist. I'm now saying that the rain alone flooded the Earth. But if it did pour for 40 days and 40 nights like the bible say's, wouldn't that cause the oceans to flood which could put the world underwater? That's actually a question. I'm not nearly good enough at math to figure that answer out. If the oceans did indeed flood, could the flood be plausible? I also see and understand the views of atheist. I know it can be hard to believe in something that you can't see. It's one of those things where you just have to have faith. I can't explain it but I just know in my heart, that God does exist. One thing is for sure, one day we will all find out. It's just a matter of time.
One last thing - if you knew the truth behind religion, Christianity etc..... would you blow it for everyone else....
These poor souls (Christians etc.) need GOD for their existence otherwise their lives would be without purpose.... or so they think.
Besides everything in this world that is not man made has an opposite.... and many parts of the bible misplace this fact... women for a start give life.... not GOD..... sexual intercourse is a fact of life, for without it there would be no life...
The bible also states that to live life you must be gay, have sex with your brother or sister... and treat women like dirt.... for this you will be given entry into heaven.....
...Like Seneferu, Imhotep was a Theban priest, and they took over and started the 4th Dynasty. Like Imhotep, Noah was a high priest, medicine man, great architect, and etc. Where else did Noah get the skills to build the great ark, but ancient Egypt. Like Lamech, his father prophesized, Noah would be a deliverer. When Seneferu was mysteriously found dead, and the government was taken over, it seems obvious that Imhotep took off and a hundred years later, his great ark was constructed, and the 5th Dynasty was ended abruptly by the flood. That marked the end of the Old Kingdom and the end of the great pyramids built of stone as it was done prior. But because of Separation of Church and State, we have been deprived of being able to see the truth in regards to how Imhotep's life and Noah's life match! It seems obvious to me that Imhotep and Noah are one and the same man! The names of Noah's eldest son match Imhoteps priesthood in connection with PTAH, and so many other names of Noah's descendants match the name of Imhotep [a spiritual name] such as Mizra-IM, RephidIM, CaphtorIM, and etc. Due to the Separation of Church and State, the educational system has been used as a tool to deprive us of so much truth. But hopefully, not for long.
...In regards to the wonderful man, Noah, his life coincides exactly with the life of Imhotep. The high priest, lecture priest, medicine man, and etc. of Djoser of the 3rd Dynasty who constructed the Great Steppe Pyramid of Sakkara was dated to be about 2667 B.C. according to the Bible timeline, Noah would have been around 300 years old at this time. It is said that the tomb of Imhotep was never found, and that would be because, HE NEVER DIED! Imhotep never died!
. . . Considering the dating system with regards to the Biblical timelines, if you compare and contrast the secular dating systems of today with respect to the Star of Bethlehem the becomes the basis for the Biblical timelines, then it is obvious that the dates given for the wood tested by this team is accurate. Based upon the Star of Bethlehem, the actual time of the Great World Flood and Noah's Ark was April 17, 2356 B.C. and Noah would have been 600 years old. This would also correlate to the actual birth of Jesus Christ too, April 17, and the very time of the appearance of the Star of Bethlehem. Like the book of Genesis states, the flood was on the 17th day, the Second month, when Noah was 600 years old. And then there is the secular records that can also be compared and contrasted to ancient Egyptian records which gives only more astonishing findings:
Well, as an African American descendant of slaves and severely persecuted in this system, and a Christian, I know that this will be the closest I will get to the truth about Noah's Ark, that is, until the Second Coming. I followed this story for over a year now about this team and although most of the video youtubes are cancelled regarding this subject, I've seen them and know that it is total truth. It matches the Bible in all respects. I am so elated to have found this research team and information about their trek to what I believe to be one of the most important findings on this earth and beyond in regards to mankind. The conflicting reports given in the media and by scientist is only expected and goes along with ages old deceptions to try and kick against the truth.
I've seen other youtube videos about how the Russians, the army, and other governments have trekked to this site and taken pictures and all of a sudden the videos are taken off the internet. So much secrecy. But any avid Bible researcher will see and know that this is truth.
they stated "The team says radiocarbon-dated wood taken from the discovery site—whose location they're keeping secret for now—.."... why would they want to hide this?
So many people try to find some lame excuse to not believe this story of Noah and the Ark. Scientist don't know everything. The earth 5000 years ago was a very different place. Mountains likely weren't as high or oceans as deep. Scientists try to claim if you raised all the oceans and flatten then and lower the mountains and then melt all the snow in the ice caps, and rained all the water out the skies; they claim there won't be enough water to flood the whole planet. Question? How could they possible know. The planet is 70% water and that doesn't even include all the melted ice water. The proof that such an event is all here. Fish skeletons found at elevations above 10,000ft. How did they get there? Soil that we know is native to one continent found half way across the globe. How did it get there? Wildlife that we know is native to one place, found somewhere else. How did it get there? The land masses breaking apart. What caused it? Mariana Trench which is found to be deeper than the pacific itself has been proven to be a large drain which actually cycles the water and it comes out in another ocean. Land being pushed up to higher elevations and so much more.
Oh and then trying to take God or some supreme life form out the equations. Accidents don;t happen, they are caused. Accident is such a lame word because for things to happen there has ti be this one rule....CAUSE AND EFFECT. Something had to cause the energy to come about that was need to create our universe.
I think the biggest issue of the story is why would God use water to kill man, when it could have been done by supernatural means. The answer is? God only knows. Maybe he chose it to show mankind his power in a way they would never forget. Simply making someone disappear would be forgotten rather quickly. But if that person causes and event on a grand scale, they won;t forget it. Think about the principle. There have been thousands of actors and actress in showbiz since filming first began. However only a select few are ever remembered. Why? Because those select few stood out. Maybe they did more movies. Maybe it was how they acted or their voice. Otherwise they are no different than the rest of us.
To this day, as far as we know; organic life as we know it to be only exists on this planet. Could their be other life forms? Yes. Could they be organic in nature? Sure. But where would they have come from? Did they just appear out of nowhere? Or did someone put them their.
Evolution vs Creation, which makes more since. The one chance in a billion trillion that something might happen or a Supreme being that made it happen?!
Film "The Quest for Noah's Ark" (Mith Hunters) falsehood. Author calls the the crosses on the stones near Ararat pagan. Obvious falsification. These crosses belong to the Armenian Christian culture.
Фильм "В поисках Ноева Ковчега" (миф охотников) ложь. Автор называет кресты на камнях возле Арарат языческие. Явной фальсификацией. Эти кресты принадлежат к армянской христианской культуры.
This has been conclusively shown to be a deliberate fraud by people who personally know the perpetrators. How has NatGeo not found any of this information? See http://www.mountainararattrek.com/ark
@Alex HollowayJust
to add a comment to the source of the flood water: I am not a scientist
either and I do not know the total amount of water that the Earth's ice
caps have or if it would be enough to cover the whole planet's
surface.One thing that I do know is that the Bible doesn't state that
all the waters that covered the Earth emerged from the planet's surface.
In the passage of the flood, the Bible states that on that day, "all
the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the
heavens were opened" (Gen.7.11). This passage, however, can be subjected
to interpretation to simply say, "oh, it just rained; water fell from
the sky." However, in the narrative of the Creation, we see that 'in the beginning' "God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so.God
called the vault 'sky' " (Gen. 1.7,8) So there is water above and below
the "vault" that we see; the visual sky is a vault for water as well.
@Alex Holloway As regards any flooding on Mount Ararat, the base of Mount Ararat is 1,526m above sea level with the peak rising to an elevation of 5,137m. To put this into perspective, if all the ice in the Antarctic and Greenland icesheets including the glaciers were to melt then the global sea level would only rise by approximately 70m.
@Alex Holloway Actually 40 days and nights of rain doesn't sound that much to someone living in the UK lol. Some places in the world today have far more rainfall, Waratah in Australia averages 314 days of rainfall per year, i believe they have a giant Wellington boot to represent the actual inches of rain that fall there.
@Alex Holloway Hi Alex, just to try and help with your question about the rain, rain is part of the water cycle, over 97% of the world's water is in the oceans and it is the evaporation of the oceans that accounts for the vast majority of the water in the atmosphere which falls as rain. As part of the cycle, however long the period of rain globally the sea level would balance out. So no global flood caused by 40 days and nights of rain but quite possibly a large local flood, the known world in biblical times was relatively small.
@Bob Smith Let me correct you sir, "women for a start give life.... not GOD....." that is pretty stupid to say, cause if woman gives life and not God then how in some cases some babies die after Birth or while in the Womb, as if women has a choice to kill the baby before birth or after birth. men and woman help make the Baby in the woman's womb, (the woman carries the baby for 9 months in the Womb) and God lives life at first conception. if man and woman can create life then how come every time science try to create life it always ends up in total failure (or clone a human) It's called "being blinded from the truth" and my words to you is nothing but vanity and corruptions. "Amazing Grace"
@Bob Smith I understand you didn't read the Bible.! Even if you read but you didn't understand it. I will say one thing, Bible didn't say what you think it said. You are wrong.
@Kimberly Daniel Actually, the pyramids were built long after Noah and his supposed boat. They were built largely by the Israelites and other slaves of the Egyptian Empire. But many cultures long preceding the Israelites spoke of floods, though the accounts vary.
@Kimberly Daniel Hopefully religion and the last remaining gods will finally die out.Noah's ark and a global flood is impossible and has been thoroughly debunked over and over again.
Noah died, according to the Bible, when he was 950 years old. So, this would add to why the tomb of Imhotep was never found. Mankind had longer lifespans at that time before the flood. Djoser, the Golden Horus, died according to script and his descendants took over for a short while, but the 3rd Dynasty, was taken over by Seneferu, the Beneficent king-priest.
@Kimberly Daniel That date is absurd. There were civilizations all over the world that had developed writing long before then, and there was no mention of a flood. Those civilizations would not be there writing stuff after a flood that kills everyone in the world.
Also, how exactly did Noah fit 13 million animals (2 each of 6.5 million land species) on a 400'x70' boat? How is that there are plants? A flood that covered up the highest mountains on earth would kill all land based plants on the planet. most of the waterlife would be killed off too, with the introduction of that much fresh water into the ocean. Ever put a saltwater fish into fresh water? Or vice versa?
@Tjp Prctr Hi, if you would like some information on rain and the possibility - or not - of a global flood, you may like to look at my three replies to Alex's question about rain further up the page.
@Tjp Prctr Evolution is a fact and how do they know there is not enough water seriously you actually asked this?Its called MATH!!The stupidly hurts my brain do you know how mountains where formed?Do you even know that deserts where once oceans and that mountains where once under water?
What about carnivorous or birds carrying fish back to their yonge on a mountain or a man discards his lunch like nothing you have said is evidence for a global flood. Look I don't know how or why you believe this ridicules story but tell me how an ice sheet that is well over 110,000 years old didn't melt or float away during this global flood also can you explain to me how these ancient illiterate people even knew that the American Continent even existed?
If there was a global flood their would be evidence all over the world at a certain depth archeologist have looked all over the world for the flood sediment, Guess what its not there. Why? Because its a damn story a myth or a local flood that got mistranslated or there whole world flooded not ours since our whole world is much bigger then they could have ever imagined.
So you want us to believe that a god just what woke up one day created himself one day or one day he just got so bored with his angels and demons he created a universe disguised his creation using evolution and making the age of the universe look like its 13.5 billion years old just as a prank.
Then let us fend for ourselves having to create fire living in caves for hundreds of thousands of years then one day he looks down on earth sees that man is so evil except Noah so he kills everyone then disappears again for a few thousand years see's man is bad again sends himself as Jesus to sacrifice himself to himself perform some magic tricks then ignores us again this is what makes sense to you really honestly?
There is also no evidence for a global flood anywhere on planet earth.You should check out a report by a Christian Paul h Seely the report is Called GISP2 it proves beyond a shadow of doubt no global flood you should then watch Ken Miller's Lecture on Chromosome #2 and how it irrefutably proves evolution he is a Christian as well.Join reality let the myth go you will be better for it.
@Tjp PrctrTjp Prctr Well, I can sum this up for you. Scientists do know...pretty much everything. If you'd like to be given the equations for doing so, I'm fairly certain that you can find them. If you sincerely believe, that this is Noah's Ark, you might need to be checked mental health reasons. Your argument is poorly written and full of questions that are easily answered. Here, I'll even begin to deal with this myself. "Question? How could they possibly know." Like I said, poorly written. Use a colon for once in your life, would you? The planet being 70% water does not include the ice, no. However, only 10.4% of the earth's surface is covered in ice. You do the math. Are we at 100% yet? Oh right, we aren't. If you expect rain to cover roughly 20% of the earth's surface, I do believe you need help. You do realize fish are a large source of food for various species of birds, right? I think that bit is self explanatory. Have you ever heard of the theory of Pangea? That explains several bits of soil, life, etc. ending up in locations, where they shouldn't be.
Given your presentation of yourself, I'm not even going to get into theoretical physics with you. I don't feel as though you'd understand. If you can comprehend it, try to look up the Big Bang Theory. No, not the TV show--the actual theory.
If you actually read the Bible, which I'm sure you haven't, it deliberately explains why "God" chose water to eliminate the current human race. The rest of your third paragraph is a bunch of rambling that honestly makes no real sense. You just...keep going on about celebrities sticking out. You tried to use a metaphor. I get that much. What I don't understand is...ya know what? It's just a piss poor metaphor. Let's leave it at that.
We know why organic life forms exist. We also know why they don't exist. There are also theories about other planets having life on them prior to our knowledge of them. Once again, refer to the Big Bang Theory.
Please educate yourself. This is just insulting to anyone who tries to argue that Noah's Ark existed. I'd love to hear an intelligent argument about it. I really would. However, you aren't the person to have that discussion with.
@Karbis Kazanchyan Yes the crosses were made by Armenian Christians during the Byzantine period, they were inscribed on the megaliths as a way of "Christianising" the pagan stones.
@Mike GutierrezI know you are kidding right? you have to be, but if you're not let me make you look bad. The cross is a symbol that Christians began using way, way, way after the crucifixion (about 2,000 years ago), the flood "happened" around 5,000 years ago, not even the bible was written yet. So how was it that they found crosses again? God is not real by the way
@Izzy Colón@Alex Holloway Hi Izzy, have you seen my replies to Alex? You may find them helpful. The total amount of water that exists on planet Earth is roughly 326 million trillion gallons. This does not change as it is constantly re-cycled in the water cycle, evaporating and then falling back down as rain apart from the water that is present as ice. The maximum amount that sea level could rise at any time is approximately 70m in the most extreme case.
Also, scientists have gotten quite good at cloning animals now, and use them regularly in research. They don't clone humans for ethical reasons, though they are starting to clone working human organs that are already being transplanted into patients.
By the way, those evil scientists are why you are typing on a computer, on the internet, using electricity. You probably have a smart phone too because of those horrible, always wrong scientists. That phone probably has GPS. If not for Einstein's relativity (time shifting), the knowledge of what exactly the speed of light (which shows us how old the universe is), and the way light shifts into different spectrums based on speed and distance travelled (which also shows us the distance to distant stars and the age of the universe), your GPS wouldn't work...not to mention the satellites, and how they got up in space.
...um...conception is when some genes merge inside a cell, which changes the type of cell, which then reproduces a whole bunch of times. After about 24 weeks, this batch of cells becomes sentient, in that it has the ability to process internal and external input from sensory cells and purposefully move it's newly formed body parts. We can watch the entire process happen these days.
The fact that babies die before, during, or shortly after birth show not that there is, but that there isn't an "intelligent designer" creating each kid. Considering that 64% of all pregnancies naturally end in miscarriage, not to mention the high rate of infant mortality, I'd say that the "designer" screws up a rather lot of the time.
@Joe AllenMy goodness, man, how intelligently superior can a man think about himself.... You
poor thing, you're the one who's just making fallacious claims.. "Scientists pretty much do know everything" you say?? ..So what about scientists that do hold and proclaim a creationist standpoint?....
Plus don't you think that's its a bit shameful or childish for someone who advocates to have a strong and comprehensive, scientific and intellectual background (a wise person) yet debates with such condescending and demeaning statements to help with your (intelligently acclaimed) rational arguments instead of just going straight with good and clear reasoning..
And I believe that you should stop proclaiming about stuff that you claim to know are all "facts" because at the end of the day, allot of the scientific "facts" that we all believe and share are not first hand information, so we just really have to put our faith in in them and trust that the methods that were used were 100% accurate and/ or none if it were lies.. So maybe it's best to discuss logical and empirical stuff that we all have access to.
The big bang theory.. Basically "something (time, mass, and energy) out of nothing" and "chance/ accident and not design"is very hard to believe just given the logical implications of it.... Just to get technical with the chance argument a bit; it is very significant to realize that mathematicians generally consider
any event with a probability of less than one chance in 10 to the 50th power as having zero probability, in other words impossible... Now what is the numerical probability of life happening just by chance??... Do your own math or look it up.. Personally I think i'm being intellectually dishonest if I'd still think that everything was just an accident...
An atheist can only go so far and will eventually and inevitably just conclude no matter what:
- Things just happened without anyone or anything guiding it
- Information or instructions has always been there for no reason
- Life as we know it is pointless, we have no purpose
You can't go deeper with that without fully submitting to a divine creator..
@Manuel Ortiz@Mike Gutierrez You are being idiotic. Why? Not because you don't believe in God, but rather, because you say he does not exist like it is a fact. That is just as bad if not worse than a Christian. Atheism is the pinnacle of stupidity. At least Christians have some evidence even if it is weak (much of the Bible is consistent with our current historical knowledge). Instead of atheism, you should consider agnosticism. How can you KNOW a god does not exist? You can't. All you can say is there may or may not be one.
@Jc Jamlig@Joe Allen@Tjp Prctr A creation Scientist are you trying to be funny? The probability argument fails in so many ways I am afraid the roof will cave in before I finish typing.
We don't need a creator if you feel your life is pointless without one then to bad for you.
SO what you copied right from Behe lets talk about probability though imagine for a moment A meteor the size of a grain of sand hit's a grain of sand on a beach,
what are the odds of 'that' meteor (now meteorite) hitting that
specific grain of sand?
Well before it happens the odds are astronomical nearly 0 chance.However
After the event, it is 100%."
You see life has risen on this planet so the odd's of it happening are 100%.
But since you like odd's ill play
The probability of your god being the supergod is 1 in 10,000 and if we believe in a personal god then it gets worse so if 5.5 billion people(take a billion atheists out of course) each have a god then your god being the super god is now 1 in 5.5 billion.Now the probability that your god created himself is like less then a 0 chance.So hmm I wonder how in the world your god came to be and what did he do before creating us? Did he get bored so thought he'd f*** with a bunch of animals?
An atheist will conclude that things just happen with nothing guiding it are you just uneducated or simply ignorant?
Science doesn't answer that question.Life is as important as you make it.
What instructions or information O don't tell me your one of them idiots who think DNA is some godly code.
Join reality ok God is man made and even if their is a god it's not the god of the christian bible and he is useless while we are alive
@Fred Lunjevich I guarantee you tjp has never, ever read the whole Bible. Having grown up as the son of a pastor and having been involved in many churches, I have never, ever met a Christian that has actually sat down and read the whole bible cover to cover. People that have are called atheists.
@Jaeson Wu@Manuel Ortiz@Mike Gutierrez A mountain of evidence has shown that every religion's creation myth is false. Perhaps there is a real "god", but it's not yours, nor any other religion's. That much is easily proven. Your cell phone's GPS proves that every religion except perhaps Buddhism (which doesn't really go into it, or Hinduism, which comes kinda close on time frames...sort of) is not true. We can see stars that burned out billions of years ago, and we know how long ago it was because we know the speed of light and how light bends and color shifts, and by these can measure exactly how far away a star is, and thus how long it took the light to get here from there.
If real, conclusive evidence for a god were to be found, most atheists would agree...because atheism is based on evidence. When there is zero real evidence for a wildly improbable idea, it is ignored.
Dude you run non believers down - yet it is Christians who need the HELP - religion is belief, and if you can't believe in yourself and have to believe in a man made deity.....sad.... besides it's what you want to believe in that defines you as a man.... / or woman.... as far as the bible - a myth, folk tale etc.... some parts are true, but a lot of it is made up stories to entertain children's minds...
Life is what you make of it - not what you get told.
@Tjp Prctr Obviously you are convinced there is a god and that god happens to be the Christian one. But I have to ask have you actually critically analyzed your own beliefs? If you ever decide to do that, and take the courageous step to allow a little doubt into your belief system, you could start by looking at this claim:
"The Big Bang theory is laid to rest because energy has to have a source. What massive energy could have created the process that made space and how it works?"
Then ask yourself if energy has to have a source (another form of energy) then surely that energy has to have a source? Otherwise you've just disproved your own claim that energy needs a source. Of course, if god is not an energy source, then you're back to the same place we all are, explaining how energy sprung into existence from nothing (since zero energy would be nothing). So god is either something (and therefore requires an explanation for his existence) or god is nothing (by which case we're back to quantum theory which has shown that the universe has a net energy of zero).
Either way we can say: (a) No one, including you and I, have any idea about what happened before the big bang; (b) Explaining a mystery with another mystery gets us nowhere, and therefore (c) It is unlikely and even more improbable to say that this mystery that created the universe is a form of intelligence as we know it.
Besides that, the claim that we are here means there is only one solution and that happens to be a god (not only that the Christian God) is rather a bold claim that the fact of our existence cannot support. Look up "Lottery Fallacy" for a more detailed analysis of your claims.
You do realize that none of what you said is intelligent, right? Why did you keep making posts here that are completely absurd? You do know that there are MANY species in the animal kingdom, that have homosexual males and females, existing within them? https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=animal+kingdom+homosexuality&oq=animal+kingdom+homosexuality&gs_l=youtube.3...118.2692.0.2886.23.18.1.4.5.1.152.1422.11j7.18.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.LfRbobwCMFk
I just gave you a link that PROVES it.
The Big Bang Theory has NOT been put to rest whatsoever. Do you have ANY idea what the Big Bang Theory is specifically? Could you explain it, in words other than, "Little thing go boom. Planets exist"?
That's a pretty simplistic read for you. Please educate yourself. And what the hell is this 30% of matter you're trying to discuss? All of the matter, in our bodies, can be found on earth. We are not fabricated from materials that aren't existent. Where in the world did you learn such crap?
There are so many other theories that explain how animal and plant life came to be. I'm going to go out on a limb and use a cliche. You know that gravity is a theory, correct? Yet, you believe in gravity. At least I hope you do.
It is unreasonable to believe in a higher life form when all signs, on the planet, where we exist, point to evidence claiming otherwise.
Fun fact, did you know that there were several other religions, before Christianity, that had a MALE BABY born of a virgin, on December 25th, died, and resurrected 3 days later? That's NOT including the SEVERAL texts, written before the Bible, that claim incidents of floods from gods to create a new, pure race of beings. You really should read Epic of Gilgamesh. It is one of the oldest texts known to man. Let me ask you a question. Why would would we believe in something like the Bible, but not the Epic of Gilgamesh? Oh, wait, duh! I have an answer for you! Here's something else for you to read up on! How about you read how Christianity was created? Ever heard of Rome?
I'm done. There's no reasoning with someone such as yourself, regardless of evidence. You will deny evidence staring you, in the face, because you've had the fear of a hell put into you. You've had this crap shoveled down your throat from birth. You make me believe you belong in a nut house.
@Fred Lunjevich@Jaeson Wu@Manuel Ortiz@Mike Gutierrez If there is no God, please explain how 70% of the elements of your body are found here on earth, but 30% is not found anywhere known to man. So where did the other 30% that cant be explained come from?
What about space? The Big Bang theory is laid to rest because energy has to have a source. What massive energy could have created the process that made space and how it works?
Its not an accident that out of of the know galaxies and other solar systems, ours contains the planet that can support life as we know it. We can't live anywhere else. Is it just an accident that our sun is the right distance from our planet to support life?
Oh and its the only know planet with running water which is essential for organic life as we know it.
Then you have to explain the varied plant life and animal life. How would such life be borne from some random explosion that was suppose to happen so long ago that you cant even comprehend it?
Why is it so unreasonable to believe in a life form that is higher than human who could have actually cause the things to be vs we have to believe it all happen by chance.
Here is facts where the principle applies. You can have all the wood in the world. But until you cut it and shape it, it will never just magically become a house. Moral of the story? The more unique and intrigue the concept, the more thought and power required to make it possible. That is simple common sense.
Is it an accident that no matter where you walk on this planet, the vast majority have a belief in God even if we all don;t agree about who he is. Yet there are only a choice few who don;t believe at all? It the same as how all the animals and sensible humans are all heterosexual, and yet a select few choose to be something else.
There is enough evidence around you to prove their is a supreme being if you don't want to call it God.
Not a single man on this planet can create life or prevent death. When you did they can;t make you again. Why is that? God by definition is the answer whether you choose to accept it or not.
@Jaeson Wu@Manuel Ortiz@Mike GutierrezAtheism isn't the claim there is no god, it is the lack of belief in a god. You've got it exactly backwards - atheism (skepticism) is the proper position to take when the evidence isn't there (it isn't). Christians apply this to every other religious claim (we're all atheists with respect to Zeus for example).
None of us can prove Zeus doesn't exist, so the pinnacle of stupidity would be believing in him.
Agnosticism is about knowledge (what can and can't be known); Theism and Atheism are about belief and unbelief.
At the end of the day, Theism is a positive belief in God; A-theism is the absence of such a belief, which is a reasonable position given the weak evidence for any god, including the biblical variety.
